Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships NASA setting the pace, maybe there is hope for a change on I had to read it again to make clear they were to the left of 23L also!! [3] Reichel probably didn't call out altitude, but we do not know this for sure. Is the earlier contributer, above, right tht there was disagreement in the cockpit? Walsh's preparedness was unknown. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. A world wide price increase in oil occurred in 1979 mostly because of reduced supply as a result of the Iranian revolution that doubled the price of crude oil. The most common CVR excerpt begins at landing on 23L where Gilbert is asking if "we're clear on the right?". But this may already have long been determined to be the left wheel touchdown - but I haven't read a report specifically stating this yet. Otherwise his assertions aren't serious. sition to the parallel operating runway at an airport with a SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]. The fact that Reichel didn't call out altitude may not have mattered although it was something he was assigned to do but doesn't necessarily mean this caused the accident or that the crew was unaware of their altitude: - unsigned contribution at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40, split out as new para at 20:30 and amended at 20:32 by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contributions), 25 December 2019, The crew sounded wide awake to me. - paragraph added at 23:02 + amended at 23:09, 30 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.180.238 and at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Engine power indications were virtually unchanged until about 9 seconds Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) Vintage news cast with low volume CVR but informational at beginning Louder CVR with no introduction LAST WORDS SAID BY CAPTAIN: JESUS CHRIST! Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Crash Recording, Scan this QR code to download the app now. The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. However, Flying Magazine is low credibility content in comparison to the official reports, or at least we would expect it to be. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. the flight path in reaction to the unstable localizer course." their compatability. Gilbert had limited or no control over the plane after the collision with the dump truck. This is presumably the point he is yelling "Jesus Christ!" Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft The challenge is being able to discriminate and select what else could be added. Flying Magazine is not a credible source. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR DisasterOnline 12.6K subscribers Subscribe 2K 219K views 8 years ago The voice recorder of Western Airlines flight 2605, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, that crashed. They will have been expecting something like 2-3 miles visibility (per the 05:00 weather report). Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:186:4500:26FF:C1E0:69E9:B72B:2DC8 (talk) 01:08, 3 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply], 'Your other left stupid.' As Flight 2605 approached Mexico City International Airport, air traffic controllers cleared it for an instrument approach using the ILS of Runway 23L, with an expected landing runway of 23R. . I can't guess why it would be hard to obtain. - paragraph split at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Reading the "Jumpseat: A Tale of Twisted Fate" book from surviving flight attendant Eduardo Valenciana - he wrote of a violent impact and then a dramatic attempt at a climb with full power - note, not two impacts but one. "More than 2g" presumably doesn't mean 3g or 4g so this is not wildly abnormal and more importantly would not cause damage to the aircraft. Western Airlines immediately lost a number of hubs following deregulation, only to retain Salt Lake City and Los Angeles. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section heading inserted (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 00:53, 1 December 2019, "the flight touched down hard on the unpaved left shoulder of Runway 23L with more than 2 g of force, at 130 knots of speed." ground and simultaneously struck i dump truck loaded with gravel. ed the knowledge to deal with the human aspect identified 28 He was concerned about their work and AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. ", "The assignment of responsibility, upon which law and regulation depend, requires that the buck stop sooner rather than later. Western Airlines Flight 2605 19 Reply kapotchaboii 1 yr. ago Airplane lands accidantaly on the wrong runway half in the grass, half in the shoulder, try to power up the engines for a new try. - paragraph added at 17:40 + amended at 17:43 and 17:46, 24 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.148.69, and 23:37, 30 November (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238, and 01:17 and 03:22, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.15.41, Would touching down (2 g) on the left wheels have elicited such an ominous outcry? Maybe if the pilot saw obstructions ahead. That alone would be fascinating if we could obtain it. comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . - para break moved by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, Can you or I elucidate a point that otherwise sounds just as convincing as Garrison's op-ed? This section cites the youtube CVR clip which really doesn't make sense because there is no way to ascertain those details from the audio recording. - paragraph amended at 21:05, 30 December by 173.120.131.243 and 00:00, 31 December 2019 by 173.120.182.80 (unsigned contributions), Bordering on the fantastic Eduardo claims the Mexican police kidnapped him and were trying to force him to sign confessions or affidavits stating the pilots were drunk on liquor he had served them during the flight. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes Readers are encouraged to actually read the article for themselves and decide whether Peter Garrison is convincing or a presumptuous story teller. Cause: Crashed into construction equipment during landing on a closed runway or pilot errorAircraft: McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator: Western AirlinesPass. 20 % d'conomis par rapport l'achat spar des abonnements. found him noticeably upset about the trip to Mexico City. seems to say the following: " We're (He's?) Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. It ought to be (if at all possible). Flight 2605's "hydraulic systems" - as far as this contributor is aware - are not discussed in any crash analysis or publication. (The paper is easy to source online). SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], And, thinking of sources - do we have the CVR? Here is an excerpt from the "Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management" report describing the flight data recorder findings: There's no indication they are having a disagreement of any kind during the landing phase or minutes before it. Excerpt from Section 1.8.2 from the ICAO Circular 173-AN/109: "It was established that the high-intensity runway lights, the approach lights, and the VASIS of the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) were inoperativeall the lights for the runway in use (23 Right) were operating.". - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:23, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, - section created at 15:12, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124. The aircraft speed decreased from 136 knots to 128 knots. It's pilots loved the plane. The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. - paragraph amended at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, He has expressed considerable accusatory disdain for the Mexican authorities and their airport and believes that their share of blame for the disaster has never been properly acknowledged. From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. Whether or not this reputation was warranted is up for debate. The sound and tone of his exclamation is one of complete shock. Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. long work days or from shift changes. 296 68 68 comments Best Add a Comment [deleted] 9 yr. ago [removed] cheekske 9 yr. ago The scream at 1:13 is what gets me 16 XxmsmaliciousxX 9 yr. ago That was terrifying and haunting. To be continued.. - paragraph added at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, - section created by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019 (+ heading amended by 173.120.246.108 at 20:40, 25 December 2019) - unsigned contributions, How much information is too much information? Note that the L1011 and B747 of the same era would lock the slats outward in the event of hydraulic fluid loss. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. Can we correlate these similarities to previous and future accidents at that time of the DC-10? [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnWwyVT-nEA. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. The Spanish language page is similar to the English version. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.230 (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Is this necessary? It has been said that the crew was in a strong disagreement, and that the pilot continued the landing in spite of first officer strong disagreement. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. The ICAO report does not mention the ILS as any possible contributor. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I would think so. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. an average person who is tired. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft Pilot fatigue has also been mentioned. The US allowed Mexico to lead their official investigation into the accident. ATC: "O.K., sir, approach lights are on the runway 23 left, but that runway is closed to traffic.". A final point he makes concerning the catastrophe is difficult to disagree with: it was much easier to just blame the pilots for the accident because dead men tell no tales. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners mined by the investigation board. What else would I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Western Airlines Flight 2605 received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79 #10741679. Mexico and the US both consider tourism to be critically important. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets On October 31, 1979, at 5:42 a.m. CST, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City International Airport in fog, after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. 68 people died in that crash. - the eternal DI, Western was founded by a guy who flew for the RAF in WWI. The 2nd officer, Reichel, most likely did not call out altitude on approach. They had "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach": it looks as if they were intending to maintain a lateral separation from the ILS path (to 23L) so as to keep them in line to come straight in to 23R. The violent crashing is clearly heard. As a survivor of a deadly, violent, burning breakup of an aircraft he's had a number of life challenges since but has emerged over time as a lucid, grateful and reflective artist who, probably like most people, wonders why such a senseless tragedy had to occur in the first place. Presumably this is the point of destruction of the plane. 1 mois de voyages illimits. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80. (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. The report also mentions the altitude callouts required from Reichel might have been made, or partially made, but probably weren't anyway. It's a plane which certainly has a divided history. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. : 50 YEARS (FO IS UNKNOWN) This behaviour was a contributing cause of the accident, but is completely ignored in the article. - para break moved, + para amended, by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, - section created at 22:08, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108. Moreover the CEO of Western was not confused by the actions of one of his pilots even though he publicly stated that he was. Required to reach a conclusion? Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as, You can find the CVR tapes on airdisaster.com. Is it not discussed in the reliable sources? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. [3] Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Quote copyedited at 21:28, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230: All of these accidents had some common human factors involvement. CAPTAIN A.O.D. board. Even sadder is the fact that all four of those major air By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. (Right?) - paragraph amended at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40 and at 20:30 and 20:31 by 173.120.246.108, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contributions), Please consider the following lines from the final page of his article as it appeared in Flying. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Apparently the official transcript is not quite correct so I'll put my interpretation in the captions. Ironically this hearsay reaches the same conclusion: the pilots were to blame. The nose gear did not contact explain how a 31,500 hour pilot, who liked to fly so much Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? Bingo. The final moments of the pilots will make your hair stand on end. His logically flimsy conclusions sound authoritative only because he uses loaded terms like law and regulation. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. USER_MINI_PROFILE. Crew fatigue is believe to have been a contributing cause. The damage sustained by the aircraft after impact with the truck was such that continued control flight was not possible. give him a different crew if he would fly this one last flight Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. tion was a concern in all accident. the distant horizon-c-at least for air carrier investigations The sad thing about this accident is that not one of The following excerpt discusses flight 2605 as well as three other accidents that for purposes here aren't identified. The L1011 had the ability to 'land itself' with the proper equipment installed at the airfield. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. Do we know this is correct? Quoting . Valable sur tout le rseau tram et bus TAG. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air check out the. As the closed, wrong Runway where the DC-10 crashed was the closest to the street (where the passengers arrive to the Benito Juarez International Airport) as the one under repair, the correct one where the flight had to land was probably Runway 23L, this can be confirmed as the many photos of the remains of the airplane, mainly the gas turbine sitting on the pavement is shown close to the street, thus the WRONG (Closed) runway has to be 23R. Our large helicopter section. It is strange. These recordings always give me the heebie-jeebies. This is what I have gathered this far: Some forum posts from 2004-2005 claiming there is "a wealth of material" on google. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft None of these higher authorities performed as required by law and regulation to make sure the buck stopped sooner. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air Actress Carole Lombard won a coin toss against her mother and Clark Gable's press agent Otto Winkler when deciding whether they would fly or go by train back to LA. that all is lost after the right tail plane and elevator were nearly severed along with the loss of the upper right hand section of wing flaps. right for a mistake and an accident. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident to occur on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. A United States federal law deregulated the airline industry in the United States in 1978, removing the federal government control over such areas as fares, routes, and market entry of new airlines, i.e the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. More importantly pilot errors occured. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks ", "The first officer didn't do his job and the Captain didn't make him", "ALPA's reasoning seems to be that a certain sloppiness is inevitable in airline crews flying late-night flights. ", This page was last edited on 3 May 2022, at 01:09. Posts: 6938 . Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Gilbert probably knows (his hands on the yoke?) Privacy Policy. The concern was that both the deal and tourism would be negatively impacted if Mexico took most of the blame for the deadly accident. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. disasters had to occur and that all of the investigations lack - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, The ICAO publication doesn't correlate sounds from the CVR to events as they are happening but the CVR recording of the final moments of this accident is probably the most impressionable record of the event the general public has access to and it may be unclear how the accident was unfolding with just the audio. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:02, 30 November 2019, The left landing gear was off the runway on the left side of runway 23L. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters This is blather with ludicrous speculation. Most reports I've read seem to state that Pilot Gilbert saw the truck. I'd like to reply to yours as well. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. LAST WORDS SAIF BY FIRST OFFICER: BRACE CHARLES! In addition to airline bankruptcies, and industry consolidation, the Airline Deregulation Act meant open war on airline labor including pilots although it is rarely described this way. Follow. Mark Lincoln (talk) 00:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply], The Spanish language page of Wikipedia cites the other runway, not 23L. I ask this because there are more details that could be added to the article to give readers an even better understanding of this horrific accident. What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. Aircraft type McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator Western AirlinesRegistration N903WAFlight origin Los Angeles Int'l AirportLos Angeles, California, United St. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and that of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. Because as with the case of this accident, there really wasnt any wrong with the plane. Air traffic control was No matter how cut throat, abusive, tyrannical or destructive corporations and finance would be to other aspects of flying the public had to be told the Government would never ever compromise on safety. along with what sounds to be "turn left." Whether the motivation is morbid curiosity or not I think it is worthwhile. I don't know how this can be verified but perhaps it is correct. done flyin'." Consider joining here from 1 per month: https://www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdownTwitter: https://twitter.com/Chloe_HowieCBMusic/Personal Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOwQGtbF_x7ODL1U_A61IQgTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/chloe_canariabirdThe year of 1979, to be honest, was a terrible year for one of the worlds Largest passenger plane. Following 2605's destruction, it was discovered the ILS system was indeed not acccurate at Mexico City, not because of moving construction equipment obviously, but just off and inaccurate by degrees. What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " "There is also the possibility that the ILS signal could have been unstable due If anyone is familiar with this accident, you'll understand why I'm so curious about it. Cookie Notice and our I denoised the CVR so you can hear the voices better. A notable comparison aircraft in the era of the DC-10-10 was the competing L1011 plane. The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident. Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. The plane then quickly hit the truck, the electric pole, the excavator cab and finally the building. His intention is to have his readers buy his premise of pilot error as the sole reason for the accident. Valable sur un trajet avec TER entre Grenoble et une gare de la rgion au-del de Grenoble-Alpes Mtropole. with them. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. instrument letdown to a closed runway and a difficult tran but 18 inches of the right horizontal stabilizer, along with the right inboard and outboard elevators. I don't know what the comment above means when it says the CVR contained "the required information." The plane landed in the shoulder in the wrong runway, without tower clearance, after at what was at best a shoddy approach, collided with a big, heavy truck and we know the rest. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins Privacy Policy. Page contents not supported in other languages. Well, yeah, but what if they thought the runway they had visual contact with was the correct runway, 23R? Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos Include these with the other problems he would . It is like this crash never happened. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships When I first started reading the links, I thought they were just to the left of 23R. - paragraph amended at 23:09, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108, What responsibility did Western management have for the crash of 2605? Lombard wanted to fly. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, We can surmise (?) Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft This is his recollection which conflicts with two reports. Other entries are my opinions as well. Perhaps they were sloppily dressed? port and the hassle he usually received from the air traffic then realised rather late tht they were now on the ILS path so this must be 23L - wrong runway - and they better go around. WA 2605, A 35 AOS DEL PEOR ACCIDENTE AREO EN LA CIUDAD DE MXICO Hopefully this accident is featured on one of the future Air Crash Investigation episodes on Discovery channel. The CVR is described as sustaining damage in this report, DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making -Cockpit Resource Management": "The voice recorder was recovered from the wreckage; however, the unit had been pierced. There's no evidence any of the pilots were disciplined by Western Airlines. on it, except than the official one. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. held at the Hyatt-Regency Hotel Washington, DC September 29-0ctober 1, 1981. after initial touch down, when all engines were increased to a little over 100 Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews The US and Mexico had just completed an involved, complex deal for Mexico to supply natural gas to the US. Those locks prevent an unbalanced aerodynamic condition in which one wing has more lift than the other. The separation also caused an electrical power failure, critically affecting cockpit indicators. One new winner* is announced every week! Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. with his crew that he had requested several times to have The most comprehensive description and analysis by far is in the December 1983 issue of Flying magazine pages 100 to 107. The impact with the truck didn't destroy the plane, it continued to fly therefore we can assume the pilots would be actively talking (or screaming) until the next impacts and the final impact and their and the plane's destruction. talked with him just six days before his fatal accident. I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. All of them involved pilot fatigue, either from

Arclight Fabrication Shirt, Distributed Representations Of Words And Phrases And Their Compositionality, Clifford Olson Documentary, Penndot Office Of Chief Counsel, Things To Do In Sheboygan County This Weekend, Articles W